The Concept: The basic idea here is that after you have enough gear which adds minimum damage, the max damage starts to get rolled over too. So, unlike GoMule likes to show ("Adds 10-1 damage"), after you reach high enough +Minimum Damage number, every next point of +Min will in fact work as +Min & +Max at the same time.
That is of course very similar to +Damage mod on 'Grief'. There's an important fact though, which makes all this useful: there are some skills in the game that don't work with the +Damage mod, most notably Vengeance. Also, Blade Fury, but that's not relevant to this particular thread.
Vengeance is a pretty cool skill. Wesley has spent 64 points in it and it gave him a +1010% ED. All of it elemental, (almost) equally distributed between the three elements. That's on top of 1045% ED on the physical side of things.
The name: Named after Wesley Wyndham-Pryce, a somewhat dark character of Buffy & Angel TV series.
Wesley, level 83 Paladin
Code:
Str 77/105
Dex 158/160
Vit 260/270
Ene 15/ 25
Life 2,104
Mana 398
(after Battle Orders)
Resistances: 67/67/87/75
LCS highlights:
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Physical Damage: 5,587 - 5,599
(to demons) 7,661 - 7,677
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Fire Damage: 1,659 - 1,662
Cold Damage: 1,659 - 1,662
Lightning Damage: 1,610 - 1,613
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Total Damage: 10,515 - 10,536
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-85% eRes F/C/L from Merc's 'Infinity'
-83% enemy Defense from Merc's 'Infinity'
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70% IAS for 8 frame Vengeance (fastest possible), achieved at 65%
AR: 4.2k
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6% Life Leech
6% Mana Leech
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6.8k Defense
75% Chance to Block
27% FHR [6 frames @ 27%]
Skills
Vengeance: 20 [21] + Resist Fire (15), Resist Cold (15), Resist Lightning (14)
Fanaticism: 20 [21]
Holy Shield: 1 [cast at 6]
Comments on skills:
It's a Justiciar. One point in Holy Shield, maxed Fanaticism, rest in Vengeance. I see no point in crazy high lightning resistance. As a matter of fact, if anything, I might be tempted to max Fire and Cold first. After all, the most dangerous monsters tend to be lightning immune (or PI, but that's not relevant here), so I'd rather have the other elements maxed, the ones that kill those. I was doing just fine with 87 LRes, that's plenty.
Gear
Weapon: 'Oath' in an ethereal Small Crescent (249-393 damage roll)
Shield: plain 4os Sacred Targe, socketed with Min jewels, @45/61Min
Switch: beta-'CtA'+'Spirit' in a Pally shield
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Helm: Chromatic Coronet of Excellence (2x Min Jewels), total of @27/40Min
Armor: 'Fortitude' Archon Plate (@29, 1.25 Life/level)
Belt: Trang's Belt
Gloves: 1.07 Laying of Hands
Boots: War Travs (50MF, 15 Min)
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Amulet: Chromatic Amulet of Excellence (@25/9Min)
Ring1: Rare (8 Min, 6% ML, 115 AR, 19% PoisonRes, 19 Mana)
Ring2: Rare (8 Min, 6% LL, 13 AR, 15 Str, 11% AllRes, 15% LightRes)
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Charms:
- 31 squares of 1.07 Min damage charms, total of +98 Min, 22% FHR, 4MF, 65 Life, 3 Str, 2 Dex
- 11FR/FHR SC
- Cube, 2 Tomes
Total +Minimum Damage from all gear: 239
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has helped me assemble this gear. Thanks!
Comments on gear
My original plan was to use a rare Phase Blade, I have a cool one (188-220 damage, 40 IAS). But then I decided to go with Fanaticism and use Conviction from 'Infinity'. That wasn't a very good choice, but more on that later. Point is: since I decided to use Fanaticism, it seemed silly to be using this ultra fast weapon. So I went through my stashes and found a weapon which I use almost exclusively for twinking between level 49 and 'Grief'. Namely, a 337% ED roll of 'Oath' in an eth Small Crescent. That axe (which I did not know before checking) offers the best minimum damage of all 1-handers available for 'Oath'. And the 50% IAS on the weapon meant that I needed just 15 IAS more to reach the fastest breakpoint. Cool. That meant extra 61 Minimum damage of a difference between my Phase Blade and 'Oath'. That's a lot of damage for a character with 2,055% ED.
As you can see I have a pretty cool collection overall. Very neat jewelery. I'm so happy I got to use all of it.
Mercenary
Act 2 NM Might
'Infinity' Thresher
'Chains of Honor' AP
beta 'Delirium' in a Tiara
Overall
Fun: 7/10 (see "The Build" below)
Difficulty: 5/10
Future: None.
The Journey
Normal the usual way, hammer, followed by a Ravenbazooka with Holy Fire. In Nightmare, at level 50 most of my min damage collection kicked in (and more at 51) and I was a true min-damage character from then on. I entered Hell at level 74 (which was requires for one of my rings) and played it through (except for Baal) at /p3.
Got lost in A1 of all places, confused momentarily by a Cul-de-sac. There were some pretty lights soon after. That's also where the stupidity of my setup started to come in. The moron sometimes stayed back, hiding behind corners and stuff. That left me on occasion without my Crowd Control ('Delirium') and without my AR solution (Conviction). Not that I died or anything, but it got frustrating. I expand upon that in the next section.
When it works, 'Delirium' is great. Like here where it assembled monsters into a nice group for slaughter and taking care of their activities by making them fight each other. And sometimes it's like a disco or something. In any case, it's safe. And occasionally you get an attack poodle. The poodle is actually faster and has better AI than the A2 Merc (or it feels like it), so I didn't mind one bit. 'Delirium' is so effective at times, that for instance Mephisto invited himself to the fight early. No I didn't run away from him, he just came there.
I have a pretty cool screenshot of fighting Diablo. In general, the Act Bosses went down hard. My usual trick of casting Battle Cry on them, on top of 'Infinity' and high damage, it was really fast. Even Baal, that's all with no CB on me, but the moron had plenty, so maybe it's that. Not sure.
Frozen River had witches and gloams which made for a couple of tight spots when amped. But I pulled through. The moron died a couple of times, and since my setup pretty much required him to be alive, that wasn't great. The Ancients were a piece of cake, of course. After I remembered casting Battle Cry, it went significantly better too. (That's because of the need to counter Shout, if you wonder.) The WSK provided some colorful situations again, and 'Delirium' convinced Baal to curse his own guys, which always gives me a pleasant smile.
Now fighting the Lister's pack was tricky. The Merc bit the dust almost straight away. That left me in a pickle, since I lost my Conviction and 'Delirium'. I decided to tough it out for once, cast Battle Cry on them, and by the time I killed Lister I only drank like 9 potions. In general my fight with Lister sums up what's wrong with this build. Let me say a bit more.
The Build
This build, I'm not proud to say, I sort of screwed up. Pretty badly. Which is annoying, considering I've been planning it for years. There are three key issues here, and basically they all have to do with the mercenary, in some way. We have:
- Crowd Control
- Conviction, Fanaticism and Decrep
- Chance to Hit
It's been a while since I used it, so it escaped my mind momentarily, one thing that I definitely should have done: used Demon Limb charges for extra AR. That's despite having Conviction from 'Infinity'. I did rely previously on Conviction from my moron to hit stuff, and that was with Wash, my frost zealot. One major difference: Wash used 'Grief', which has ITD and -25% enemy defense. Now, ITD doesn't work for champions, bosses, or higher, which is when 'Infinity' came in useful. But it worked just fine with normal monsters and minions. And here lies the crucial difference.
You see, I was torn between making a true Avenger (Conviction aura on the Pally, low AR) and making a true Justiciar (Fanaticism on the Pally, Decrep on the moron, high AR). So I tried to take the best of both worlds, while still being minimum damage build. Although both of those builds are very similar, there's a major difference. Avenger relies on Conviction to reduce the Defense of his opponents. Hitting stuff is easy, what with about -90% enemy Defense. Justiciar needs AR. Usually from Ravenfrost combined with Enchant, Fanaticism and Vengeance bonus on top of dexterity, which you need for blocking anyway.
Now, I skipped Ravenfrost, because I had two awesome min-damage rings. I also skipped Enchant, cause I'm a moron. Instead, I decided to rely on Conviction from Merc's 'Infinity'. That is not a great idea. It sort of works. But it works with delay. It takes the Merc about 1-2 seconds to catch up and then 1-2 seconds to trigger the aura. Plus, he wanders away sometimes, or decides to stay behind.
I tired to cheat, make Justiciar and Avenger in one, and it came to bite me in the behind. After running forward, I was standing there and swinging & missing half the time, until the moron came over and triggered his aura. Very annoying. Truth is, Enchant would have helped some, but what was really needed, was significantly higher AR, and I needed more of a base for it. Charms or Ravenfrost, no way around it.
Then there's the issue of the source of damage. On an Avenger, significant portion of the damage is elemental, thus using Conviction makes a lot of sense. Wesley is a Justiciar, so though he gets 1010% ED in elemental form, he also gets 1045% ED in physical form. About 53% of Wesley's damage is purely physical. So really, what should have happened was moron carrying Reaper's and spreading Decrep around. And I should have been sporting about 10k AR. Which would require me to give up at least part of my +Minimum Damage, at the very least by using one Ravenfrost, but really some AR charms would be needed too. And I really wanted to use all my cool Min gear.
My advise to anyone else for the future: if you want to play around with Minimum damage and Vengeance, just go purely Avenger. A lot of min damage comes at the price of low AR. You need reliable source of -enemy defense to counter that. Enter Conviction. On you, not the moron.
Then there is the issue of crowd control, which Paladins don't really have. 'Delirium' (beta for Wesley) on the moron worked just fine, as it should. But it wouldn't have worked that well with Decrep. Or rather Decrep wouldn't have worked that well with beta 'Delirium', which would have kept overriding it. The points is, Justiciars should have Reaper's Moron, and at most a 1.13-'Delirium', if that.
In the end, I'm going to make a second, very similar character, using a different weapon (an imbued eth Phase Blade) and make him an honest pure Minimum Damage Avenger. That's the only way I will be satisfied. Don't get me wrong, Wesley was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed him. I was just annoyed cause two years of planning didn't work out exactly as I hoped. Can you tell I can be a bit of a perfectionist? Oh well, live and learn.
Parting thoughts
First of all, if you have a long time project, limit your expectations, lest you be disappointed. Second of all, read up first, think things through.
+Minimum damage is a cool mod. I'm glad I did this. It certainly worked and it was very safe. I'm gonna have to play a pure min damage Avenger as well, to get some closure here. Vengeance is a pretty cool skill. It may be single target and kinda slow, but it's 4 element attack.
Thanks for reading!
--Greebo|||Awesome write-up.
Congratulations on the latest Pat.|||Great pat. I've been wondering for quite some time what this min damage avenger was all about! Glad you finally answered all the questions I had about it.
I'm a big fan of an avenger, but have never done a variation like this.|||Nicely done, Greebo!!!
I did a min-dmg Griswold's zealot a long time ago in 1.12. He worked out quite well. Not the damage numbers you have here, but he was pretty sturdy in any situation. Curious though, if you considered using that set for this at all as the 12 sockets allow for a pretty decent amount of min-dmg jewels. Not to mention the set's bonus's aren't terrible.|||Quote:
Awesome write-up.
Congratulations on the latest Pat.Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
Quote:
Great pat. I've been wondering for quite some time what this min damage avenger was all about! Glad you finally answered all the questions I had about it.
Thanks! Glad to clarify. Though in fairness, now that I look at it, my write-up seems a bit like a messy rant. Oh well, I'm not gonna be rewriting it now
Quote:
I'm a big fan of an avenger, but have never done a variation like this.
It's certainly unique. If you want to borrow some stuff for a couple of weeks, PM me, we'll talk.
Quote:
Nicely done, Greebo!!!
Thanks!
Quote:
I did a min-dmg Griswold's zealot a long time ago in 1.12. He worked out quite well. Not the damage numbers you have here, but he was pretty sturdy in any situation. Curious though, if you considered using that set for this at all as the 12 sockets allow for a pretty decent amount of min-dmg jewels. Not to mention the set's bonus's aren't terrible.
Well, that's a good question.
Let's do some math. A perfect roll of Gris Caddy socketed with 4x 40ED/10Min jewels gives a minimum damage of 245. Definitely drool worthy. Of course I only had one such jewel and they don't grow on trees (not to mention a perfect Caddy roll), so probably 220 is a more realistic number. Still great. But lower than my 'Oath'.
For a Justiciar, that'd be a perfect solution, without a doubt. But I wanted to make both a Justiciar and an Avenger. Or at least have the option to make both. And for an Avenger, I'd need 109 IAS, so 70 more. 20 from gloves, sure. 20 from amulet, where I lose 9Min. Two sockets have to go to IAS jewels. Now, I do have two 7Min/IAS jewels, so that works out nicely, I'm 5 Min ahead. Altogether I'm left with 6 sockets for min jewels, same as I had here. I also lose 7Min from inherent bonus from the Circlet.
So for Min damage Avenger, I'm 2Min worse off from sockets with the Gris set. But, I'm also @30 worse off by using the set over my choice of gear, and about 100% ED worse off by not using 'Fortitude', if I'm counting right. I would want to make up at least part of the resistances in lightning with 2 small charms, thus subtracting about another 6 Min. So Gris' setup is down 8Min and 100% ED at this point.
Conclusion: it's a very, very comparable setup. Both are great. But, I do have only one copy of the set, and it'd physically hurt me to socket those jewels out later, in case I wanted to do something else. On the other hand, if I ever stick, say, 3x Um in the shield, I'll 'Hel' it out without a cringe if I want it for something else some other time. Not that I necessarily will, but I might.
On top of that: the Circlet can go on my min-damage WW-sin (that should be fun) and it seems more reasonable than using Gris' Valor for that. And since I have this awesome toy, from imbuing of all sources:
Code:
Imp Saw
Phase Blade
One Hand Damage: 188 - 220
Indestructible
Required Level: 70
Required Strength: 15
Required Dexterity: 126
Fingerprint: 0xec30da3d
Item Level: 93
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+40% Increased Attack Speed
289% Enhanced Damage
+10 to Minimum Damage
+18 to Maximum Damage
+132 to Attack Rating
9% Mana stolen per hit
Required Level +12 Ethereal
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Ruby Jewel of Bliss
Ruby Jewel of Bliss
Jewel
Required Level: 58
Fingerprint: 0x2519d72
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
40% Enhanced Damage
+10 to Minimum Damage
I want to use it at some point. And what better way than a min-damage Avenger, eh?
So, tl;dr version: I wanted more flexibility with my gear, so I made a setup that's powerful if I change one item, etc.
Wow, that's an unnecessarily long answer to a short question
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Thanks for the comments!
--Greebo|||Nice character. It's nice when something you put so much effort into planning pays off, even if the wonders of the D2 moron lessen that payoff slightly.
By the way, was it you who mentioned doing a min damage Bowazon (using a Diamond Bow of some sort)? If it was you, just to let you know I'm stealing your idea (at some point)!
|||Very inspiring pat, Greebo...you, and the other threads you linked, have put a new spin on a project I'm working on...Thanks!@Jason Maher: Don't do it! For ranged weapons, if Mindam>Maxdam, then Mindam becomes Maxdam and vice-versa...NOT Maxdam=Mindam+1
WoRG|||Quote:
Nice character. It's nice when something you put so much effort into planning pays off, even if the wonders of the D2 moron lessen that payoff slightly.
Thanks!
What's really annoying about A2 morons is that some other allies have so much better AI. Valk, Golem, Bear. Even A1 Rogue (though that's not a fair comparison). So why couldn't they just use the better AI that they clearly have available?
Quote:
By the way, was it you who mentioned doing a min damage Bowazon (using a Diamond Bow of some sort)? If it was you, just to let you know I'm stealing your idea (at some point)!
Sadly, it turns out it's a dumb idea, a WoRG (& Grisu in my other thread) point out:
Quote:
@Jason Maher: Don't do it! For ranged weapons, if Mindam>Maxdam, then Mindam becomes Maxdam and vice-versa...NOT Maxdam=Mindam+1
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Very inspiring pat, Greebo...you, and the other threads you linked, have put a new spin on a project I'm working on...Thanks!
Thanks! I'm glad something I wrote was relevant. What's your project? I'm assuming something min-related in 1.07. Share!
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Thanks for comments!
--Greebo|||Quote:
Very inspiring pat, Greebo...you, and the other threads you linked, have put a new spin on a project I'm working on...Thanks!
@Jason Maher: Don't do it! For ranged weapons, if Mindam>Maxdam, then Mindam becomes Maxdam and vice-versa...NOT Maxdam=Mindam+1
WoRG
Sometimes I wonder why Blizzard even bothered with ranged characters...|||That is one awesome writeup and yet another very inspiring character...I guess I never (in the last 15 months or so) was so inspired to play Diablo again and try out some new builds as I am now after your newest Pats/Mats! Thanks for sharing! Now I might consieder (ab)using the 1.07 eth Kingslayer Decapitator on a sorc even if it's an ATMA bug ... just because I can! But first, I have to find the runes for Infinity, I guess...
Good luck on your other projects (sorry for being the messenger to ruin you min damage bowazon btw)! Looking really forward to your next pat threads!
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