Timescale wise I'm thinking of trying a session towards the end of the month. So if you are interested, let me know and get building a character.
Rules
Basically it would be along the lines of the usual BM rules, but physical melee attacks only. BvBs, FuzzDodgers, Jabberzons, Wolf Barbs, Zealots, Maul Bears etc all welcome. Wolves would be allowed, as long as they didn't use rabies. I would also assume no Mind Blast or Venom for assassins.
So some things that definately need to be agreed. My opinions are below, but none of them are fixed:
Open Wounds
I think this should be allowed. It is accessible to all classes. Banning it would pretty much rule out any assassins.
Teleport
I'm assuming this would be banned. It's not really melee with people zipping all around the place.
Life Tap
Not sure about this one. Zealots will want to use Exile. It is accessible to all classes except WW Barbs. Charges would be banned as usual though. Only ctc allowed.
Elemental Damage
How to limit the elemental damage? People will want to use Enchant charges from Demon Limb, Ravenfrost carries cold damage etc. Do we define a limit for elemental damage?
Other
Any other rules to be agreed?|||I'm in. I will let smart people figure out the rules, but I'll show up with a Zealot and a Barb.|||No smite. No true melee can compete with smite.
Whirlwind has a massive advantage against true melee but the duels can still be fun with this advantage known ahead of time.
I would be inclined to say no life tap whatsoever because the duels just won't be fun with life tap. Against similarly powerful characters life tap is basically an "I win" when one side has it and the other doesn't.|||Sounds like you guys should record the happening
Melee dueling is where it's at.And whats a Fuzzdodger?|||Quote:
And whats a Fuzzdodger?
It's a fuzzy Dodger
A melee PvP bearzon in this case. --------
I agree about Smite. Also, what do we do about PDR and stuff. It's all cool, correct?|||No lifetap, no teleport, elemental damage shouldn't be capped to add some variety and spice, it's usually balanced out with the lack of leech, i just don't want duels to turn into 1 hit taps then run away and wait for poison to do the work, so maybe a cap on poison.
I'm not so worried about WW, more concerned about smite in melee duels. The "is smite melee" debate that has raged for years exists only because it outclasses every other melee pvp build by a gigantic margin, so much so that every melee pvp tournament with smite quickly turns into a smite only fight. I haven't done any serious dueling since 1.10 so my opinions may be dated, but I don't think I'm that out of touch on the smite issue especially with the prevalence of the grief runeword since 1.10. I think in all honesty the only melee build that stands a chance vs a smiter geared for melee only pvp is a perfectly played WW barb with a 5 range weapon, and even then it's an uphill battle.|||Great idea.
Exile and Lifetap. With the melee limitation and teleporting/smite banned, I guess zeal will be a more usable choice, so I agree with banning this particular runeword. If zeal ends up not being a good choice, I would say it's irrelevant, since only charge remains.
Talking about elemental damage, what about Dual Dreams with conviction or LM?|||Given Barren's comments above, maybe the rule should be no skill based elemental damage, either from actual skills or oskills from items. This would rule out Dream, HoJ etc. but allow IK barbs with elemental damage from the maul.
So lets's say no Lifetap or Smite too, unless someone comes along with a convincing argument for it. Draculs would be allowed for WW Barbs or other classes (as per the old GM rules) as long as they didn't use it to trigger Lifetap.|||I probably won't participate in this, even though a melee only dueling event sounds rather intriguing. I'll just add my opinion on a few things.
I agree that Smite should not be allowed. It's just too strong vs. most other melee characters. Uninterruptible, always hits (except for dodge skills and claw block), and with Grief it even has very high damage. That's just an unfair combination against many/most melee builds.
From my experience, assuming that both have similar level equipment and skills (and good ping), a skillfully played whirlwind barbarian with 2x range 3 weapons (e.g. Berserker Axe) has good chances against a Smiter (also with range 3 weapon), thanks to "clip whirls". I imagine that a good range 4 or 5 two-handed weapon (especially with some OW) might work even better (haven't tested that). But having only 1 melee character type that can cope well against Smite, is not much of a consolation.
About Life Tap, I agree that it shouldn't be allowed. It's basically a CtC Win, so it sort of turns the duel even more into a lottery.
About Venom though... Whirlwind Assassins are at a great disadvantage without Venom, because typically most of the damage comes from OW and Venom. Venom's poison damage duration is extremely short, so it cannot be abused with hit&run attacks.
It is possible to create a physical damage oriented WW-sin that would actually work, but it requires insane equipment in order to hold anything against the Grief/Beast/etc. wielding brutes, and due to claws having only range 2, it's at a disadvantage anyway. So I would say that Venom should be allowed.
As for other elemental damage skills/oskills, with the exception of Venom, I think it's better to just leave them off, to keep it simple and as close to "true melee" as possible. Also some cap for poison damage from charms, to prevent any more hit&run abuse possibilities than what OW already provides. I don't see a problem with other elemental damage charms though, their damage is just so low compared to physical damage - on a physical damage melee build that is.
And this is probably more controversial, but about Teleport, I think it should be allowed. It adds quite a bit of diversity, without being too powerful in melee only dueling. Teleport matters much more against casters and other ranged opponents, but has only rather minor tactical uses in melee dueling. Besides, using Enigma means no Fortitude or 1.07 Arkaine's Valor for example. And amulet with Teleport charges means no Highlord's, etc.
Edit:
Now that I think of it, a well built and played PvP whirlwind barbarian might also be overpowered for this kind of event. Without smiters, ww barbs don't really have any obvious natural enemies in the world of melee.|||I don't like that elemental damage rules. Granted, that's because I love Paladins, but still.
I think you guys are going overboard here. It's like saying "Rising Sun and Black Oak are ridiculous. Let's ban all absorb."
Teleport
I agree in principle. But I think it's enough to ban FCR if you use teleport. Then a character like Vengeance Sorc could take part. Fragile, melee, 1-hit KO everything, probably.
Elemental Damage
Anyone can wear double 'Dreams'. We can just ban synergies to oskills (which would include LM).
I think we should either ban all elemental damage above some level (100-ish?) or allow it independent of the source. I mean, we can limit it by some simple rules like I've said above, but I don't think it's fair to allow stuff like IK Barb and not allow HS Zealot (unsynergized). I don't see the point differentiating between elemental damage granted from items and elemental damage granted from skills.
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